Thursday, 2007-05-03

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PseudonymG'day.08:00
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pgregorymorning08:01
pgregoryhi Andrew, how's things?08:01
PseudonymOK, you?08:01
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pgregoryyeah, not bad08:01
pgregoryI've added some extra stuff to the advanced FB wiki page, started work on the XML packets.08:02
PseudonymCool.08:03
pgregoryI've been thinking about how best to send the bucket data, and it seems that the general recommendation is to use Base64 encoding.08:03
pgregorythe only problem I can see with that, is endian issues should the server be on a different architecture than the client.08:03
pgregorythe solution I've thought about is to encode the endianness into the XML packet.08:04
PseudonymIs there any reason why you're using XML, as a matter of curiosity?08:06
pgregoryalternatives?08:09
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PseudonymNot sure offhand.  XML just seems like a big hammer.08:09
PseudonymThere isn't a huge amount of structure here.08:09
PseudonymAnd it's not text./08:09
pgregoryit's commonly used for RPC, if there's an alternative, I'm happy to listen.08:10
PseudonymWhat are you sending over the pipe apart from what's in the standard display driver API?08:10
pgregorynothing, it's a simple forwarding interface, I'm trying to match the Dspy interface calls as closely as possible, just packaging them up into clean XML packets, and posting them across the socket.08:11
PseudonymThere are plenty of alternatives.  ASN.1, sunrpc... what about that RPC framework you discovered a couple of months ago?08:11
pgregoryPseudonym: the dependencies were too high, for all the systems I looked into, so instead we decided to opt for a simple sockets based communications mechanism, with XML for the packet wrapper for safety.08:12
PseudonymRight.08:12
PseudonymWell, I guess that works.08:12
PseudonymI think the solution is to pick an ordering.08:12
PseudonymNetwork ordering makes the most sense.08:13
PseudonymDoes Windows have htonl, htons etc?08:13
pgregoryyes08:13
PseudonymWell then. :-)08:13
PseudonymI'm taking it for granted that Mac OSX does, because it's Unix.08:14
* Pseudonym hasn't actually checked that08:14
pgregoryso what you're suggesting is, do hton? on the binary daya, then base64 encode it, then send that. Then on the other end, base64 decode, and ntoh?.08:14
PseudonymYeah, but you could put that in an XML wrapper.08:15
pgregoryof course, that's what I plan to do.08:15
PseudonymYeah.08:15
PseudonymBasically that.08:15
pgregorydid you look at the description?08:15
pgregoryit has the main XML structure for the Open message as a starter, so you can see what I'm basically looking at doing.08:16
PseudonymRight.08:16
pgregory^^ description on the Wiki that is...08:16
PseudonymIt's just for binary data.08:16
PseudonymNo, I haven't looked at that.08:16
PseudonymI shall do that right now.08:16
pgregoryyeah, only for the bucket data, all other information is text values, as it should be in XML.08:17
pgregorythe other advantage of using simple sockets/XML is that the client can be written in just about any language that supports those two concepts (just about any useful language in existence), which makes integration with other apps a lot easier.08:17
PseudonymYes.08:18
* pgregory just realises, the terms 'client' and 'server' are not clear in this context.08:18
pgregoryis Aqsis the 'server', or the 'client'?08:18
PseudonymI interpreted it as sender/receiver.08:18
PseudonymOK, I see the format for Open.08:20
PseudonymThat's cool.08:20
PseudonymUhm...08:20
PseudonymIs it normal to do this in XML?08:20
Pseudonym   <Value>128.0 255.0 0.0 255.0</Value>08:20
PseudonymOr is it more normal to wrap each number, to avoid parsing on the other end?08:20
pgregoryI've done it before, not sure ig it's normal.08:21
* Pseudonym nods08:21
pgregoryI'll take a look at the alternatives08:21
PseudonymWhatever is usual, I guess.08:22
PseudonymMy working XML experience is almost all to do with text.08:22
PseudonymSo this sort of thing doesn't come up.08:23
pgregoryhmm, SOAP does it like this...08:23
pgregory<valueArray>08:23
pgregory    <value>128.0</value>08:23
pgregory    <value>255.0</value>08:23
PseudonymThat makes sense.08:23
pgregory    <value>0.0</value>08:23
PseudonymI figure if you have an XML parser handy...08:24
pgregory</valueArray>08:24
pgregoryyeah, it would make it much easier on the client end, I'll make the change.08:24
pgregorydone08:28
pgregoryactually, that makes it look much more consistent, the flags and formats elements used that same method.08:28
PseudonymRight.08:29
PseudonymOne other thing I realised I'll need is a chunked file dumping tool.08:30
pgregory?08:30
PseudonymPossibly something that can do simple edits later.08:30
PseudonymOh, well, the chunked file is an envelope format.08:30
PseudonymSomethign to display that in semi-readable form for debugging.08:31
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PseudonymThankfully, the word "chunk" has a "q" sound in it, so I'll be fine thinking up a name for it.08:31
* pgregory notes at this point, the 'normal' convention is to replace 'x' with 'qs'.08:36
PseudonymTrue.08:37
PseudonymBut still...08:37
pgregorywe're going to run out of 'x' words at some point I guess.08:37
PseudonymI thought we'd already settled on the brickmap compiler as briqser or something.08:38
pgregoryI've not heard anything about that.08:38
* Pseudonym nods08:38
pgregoryI expected the brickmap compilation to be included into teqser.08:38
PseudonymIt's a fairly different process, but maybe.08:38
PseudonymGotta head off, anyway.08:39
PseudonymNight08:39
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renderguyMorning all.10:06
renderguytcolgate: You around?10:17
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AnteruMorning10:31
renderguyAnteru: Moin.10:52
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renderguyJoron: Morning.11:59
JoronGood Morning to you too.12:02
renderguyJoron: Just curious, but do you tend to use your Mac more than your Windows box?12:20
Joronfor aqsis 50%-50%12:22
JoronIt used to be 75%(PC) 25%(MacosX)... it went to the opposite and now becase at work I have dual cpu I may use more the pc... until I buy a dual core macosx laptop.12:23
JoronAnyway I got to go I will be back in one hour or so.12:33
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ShortWavewelp13:20
ShortWavelooks like I'm going to be more technical illustration these days13:20
pgregoryhi ShortWave13:20
ShortWavepgregory: hail13:20
pgregoryyou mentioned the other day a pending commit for Neqsus, any more information on that available.13:28
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pgregorywb Michel13:49
JoronHello Paul.13:49
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Joronslow morning.13:57
JoronI don't know but the spring is finally here in Canada.... it is about time. It will probably lift a bit my spirit.14:00
Joronwhat is the way to have the new framebuffer with svn command.14:08
JoronI just want to import the branch with the display only I don't quite sure of the syntax I have to provide to svn.14:09
renderguyJoron: You need to CO the 'new-framebuffer' branch.14:09
pgregoryJoron: svn co https://aqsis.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/aqsis/branches/new-framebuffer new-framebuffer14:10
pgregorythat will checkout to a folder called new-framebuffer under your current dir.14:10
Joronthank you very much.14:10
pgregorybe warned, if you're going to build it, the fluid stuff doesn't happen automatically yet.14:14
pgregoryyou'll need to run "fluid -c eqshibit_ui.fl" in the displays/eqshibit folder, before you do a scons build.14:14
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renderguySh0rtWave: Howdy.14:24
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mafmhi14:27
renderguymafm: Afternoon.14:27
mafm:)14:28
pgregoryI've modified the XML schema for the messages, to make things a little more concise and easier to parse.14:35
renderguypgregory: Looks okay to me, is there a reason for the shift between singular and plural element names?14:40
renderguypgregory: plural == parent?14:41
renderguypgregory: singular == child?14:41
pgregorysorry, lost me, can you explain.14:41
renderguypgregory: <Dimensions .../>, <FloatsParameter .../>, <StringsParameter .../>, etc.14:43
pgregoryDimensions isn't a plural, it's descriptive term.14:44
pgregoryFloatsParameter, IntsParameter etc. just mirror the names used in the Dspy interface.14:44
pgregoryi.e. a Parameter consisting of Ints/Floats/Strings14:44
renderguypgregory: Ah, so the Dspy interface uses that (plural) format anyway, just looked odd to me - Ignore me.14:46
renderguypgregory: What's does the 'plus1' refer to ('xmaxplus1', for example)?14:49
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pgregoryrenderguy: again, from the Dspy interface.14:58
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pgregoryit's to make sure that xmaxplus1 - xmin is exactly the width of the region, not xmax-xmin+1 wich is confusing.14:58
renderguypgregory: K, won't question you any more.  ;-)15:04
pgregoryplease do, I'm often wrong.15:05
pgregory"Often Wrong Sung" - prize to the first person to spot the quote.15:05
Joronbyebye15:09
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renderguyGotta shoot to, laterz.17:12
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mafm_bye17:35
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pgregoryevening all22:04
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ShortWavehola23:46

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